So why would anyone want to spend the money and  time to actually use ship labs if in every single way normal labs are better? Ship Board labs cost more, use fleet supply, and limit your early game fleet so you can't be every where at once. With a lot of there purposed nerfs there is no reason to use Ship labs at all, giving the tech no purpose. At this point just remove the labs and give Vasari something useful instead of just another cost sink.

You're missing the point: you aren't buying the capitalships for the labs.  You ALWAYS build 2-3 capitalships in a  game on any faction- that means shipboard labs is going to at the very least give you 2-3 labs of each type(4-6 labs total) effectively for free(you're not spending any more on capitalships then you would have without this tech) with no logistic cost- that's huge.   4-6 labs is 16-24 logistics slots, and the cost of building those labs & upgrading planetary lgoistics limtis is a LOT more then the cost of researching shipboard labs.

Think of it this way: without shipboard labs you'd buy 2-3 capitalships for military(you'd want to build this many regardless) and 4-6 labs- with shipboard labs you only buy the capitalships+research shipboard labs(which is much cheaper and saves logistics allowing for a stronger economy).

Just comparing the price is an inherently flawed comparison- you're only paying cash for labs for the research component....you're paying resources for capitalships for military power, the tech just gives you labs as a side benefit.

What you're arguing is like saying that the Advent Loyals are only taking planets for Global Unity and as a result global unity should have an effect on par with the entire baseline bonuses of planet- no... you're going to be expanding and taking planets regardless, that's not the "cost" of the culture.

You still didn't answer why anyone would pick ship labs over standard. You are still paying for labs in the form of capital ships. Just because you are building them anyways doesn't mean they still don't cost resources. You are building research labs anyways! So I guess they are free too! That's bullshit and both of us know that.

Ship board labs are not free. You still have to build normal labs for the pre-req, and have a good amount of research before you can use ship labs, and even then congrats on rushing for shipboard labs you now have a few capitals compared to his fleet that can be multiple places at once.

Shipboard labs are supposed to be better then normal labs. Its a perk of being Vasari Loyalist and part of the flavor what with them running from scary monsters. They are going to simply function different from the other factions just as Vasari always have. Its balance by an increased cost, early game venerability in the form of a fleet numerically smaller, and that if you pick off a cap ship in the early game it hurts them even more then usual. 

Also as I said earlier what immeasurable benefit does the open logicality slots have on the early game?

Let's put it this way. As a regular trinity faction, you'd have to build both 8 of each labs and 2-3 cap ships.

Now with the VL you have the option to build 3-4 of each labs and have the other 4-5 labs aboard your 2-3 cap ships you already have.

Sure you would have built the labs anyways, but you won't see the labs reaching level 10 and leading your fleet into battle.

Plus, as mentioned before but you somehow completely missed the benefits: you don't need to use logistics slots for those 4-6 labs granted to you by your capital ships. More logistics slots means less money spent on upgrading logistics capacity, means you need fewer planets and you've got more to devour with SttC.

Not to mention that you'll already have at least one or two capital ships by the time you research Shipboard labs, which will immediately jump you several tech tiers ahead, giving you access to end-game toys the other factions won't have yet.

Then there's the final obvious reason shipboard labs, even in a nerfed stated, is better than regular labs: THEY'RE MOBILE. You don't need a planet to sit your labs at. You bring them with you.

Better does not mean simply less expensive. Your unilateral thinking method is hurting my logic.

So you get to spend more money for tech labs that get to go into battle. So instead of having them safely tucked away in my back planets behind star bases and behind my fleet, I now have the privilege to take them with me in front of his fleet as well.

If you want to take logistic slots into account when assessing the cost of tech labs then lets be fair and take into account the flat 9% tax from fleet supply along with the cost for upgrading for more capital crew. So yeah, I guess instead of paying the nominal amount of resources for logistical slots I get to have a amazing flat tax on all my income instead.

Just because the tech labs are mobile doesn't make them better. Now instead of having to bypass my fleet and try and take out my tech labs while keeping my fleet occupied with a smaller force, my opponent has the pleasure of being able to bring his full force to bear on them.

Ship board labs are in a precarious position as is. If they get nerfed any more there is literally no reason to take that tech aside from having the immense joy of watching your tech *and* fleet get destroyed. 

If you consider making use of traditional labs and shipboard labs to be mutually exclusive you are right.

But if you build labs as usual and then midgame decide to buy shipboard labs you all of a sudden gain a huge boost to tech capability. If you don't want to make use of it just don't. You still can have them as sort of a backup should you lose your structure labs. Since those don't put up much of a fight they might be a more preferable target for your enemy now and if they get destroyed it still won't hurt you as much as it would have without shipboard labs.

 Shipboard Labs = Insurance + Tech Tier Increase = Win + Win 

EDIT: Ceterum censeo SttC esse levendam.  

You can build trade ports instead with the logistic slots, making you more credits.

That's the fundamental problem in your thinking: Normal Labs and Shipboard labs are not mutually exclusive- the point of shipboard labs is to upon research to instantly gain a few extrra labs fro mthe capitalships you've already built, as well as to make new capitalships more appealing investments.

The purpose is not for conventional  labs to instantly become obsolete- regular labs should be better at being labs, but the capitalships also contribute to your military and grant income with another vasari loyalist tech.

Also, killing labs is easier then killing a well microed capitalship- the lab can't run away, and aside from the advent has no shield mitigation.  Not to mention, without capitalships you often need more labs then you can fit on 1-2 back-line planets.

That cost is for your military power, not for the labs.  This is your problem, you're attributing every cost of capitalships direct and entirely to the shipboard labs.  Shipboard labs are supposed to be a side benefit of having capitalships, not the other way around.

And frankly, being to invest all those extra logistics in trade ports can easily more then make up for a bit of extra fleet supply-

 Frankly if you take heavy capitalship losses, the opponent has a alrge military advantage and you're probably losing anyway.

Also you're again assuming you don't have any static labs.  Think of it this way: you and opponent A each have 3 capitalships and 6 reserach labs of various type.  Suppose you research shipboard labs and it only gives 1 lab of each type:

You are now 6 labs up on the opponent for just north of 1000 credits for which he could buy maybe 3-4 frigates.  Even if your capitalships get killed, it's not like you suddenly are lower then him: no, you still have the same 6 labs as him.

And frankly with how powerful those cheap extra labs are, there should be a risk.  At present there isn't much of one, because actually causing the vasari Loyalists to lose access to important techs requires a near total wipe of his capitalships as it doesn't take very many to have 8 labs of each type.

Bull. Tell me a single TEC or Advent with as much impact on the game at a comparable tier to Shipboard labs.  A mere 200 credits and change instantly grants access to easily 4000-6000 credits and 16-24 logistics worth of labs.  Vasari Loyalists are the only race in the game that can reliably get to 8 lans of each type in multiplayer- that is a colossal tactical advantage.  Every other faction needs to choose between a strong economy and a strong military: the Vasari get to have both for less resources then other factions get one.

Actually making a gain if the game drags out even a tiny bit due to the extra trade ports.

The OP goes overboard in nerfing this ability, although making it a 2 point research sounds good.

The simplest way to balance this would be to make 1 shipboard lab disable 1 planetary lab. Upon research, a VL player would not unlock new tech tiers but not lose any either. Their position in the tech tree would not immediately change. This redundancy would  make the destruction of labs difficult but prevent rapid access to top tier techs.

point 1 sounds nice.

point 2 is insanely stupid. destroy all capitals and he has to surrender. this sounds like an emo rage kid nerf cry.

Problem to me is that once researched, it is too much of a sudden jump to late game tech. You unlock the full tech tree far too easily.

I actually don't think that 4 cap ships providing 16 labs is OP at late game. Problem is getting to it too easy, too soon.

A completely different approach is to cap the number of labs on ships, and gradually lift the number with later techs.

Assume a beeline tech where each tech requires the previous level and each has 2 levels.

tier 3 - 1 lab of each type/level (1/2  ship labs)

tier 4 - 1 lab of each type/level (3/4  ship labs)

tier 5 - 2 labs of each type/level (6/8 ship labs; 8 cap ships = tier 8 tech)

tier 6 - double the number of cap ship labs (4 cap ships = tier 8 tech)

As I explained earlier, if shipboard labs disabled the equivalent number of planetary labs then you don't get that sudden jump.

4 cap ships providing 16 labs is too much.

Yep, 8 should provide 16

from the 1.03 notes:

Perhaps a bit harder of a nerf then necessary(personally I think the tier adjustment was unnecessary after the drop to 1 lab), but this will certainly balance the tech.  And frankly even with these changes it will still be quite useful- just not so stupidly gamechanging as it has been until now.